Curse

Overnite · Sep 07, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

A multiplayer game where everyone is focused on r9+ HoH, farming, calling everyone noobs, showing off ub3r l33t items, rejecting mesmers and assassins, playing cookie cutter builds and more farming.

Good luck finding a group.

Then maybe Anet should focus on fixing those problems instead of focusing on making henchmen an even better alternative to teamplay. In Chapter 4 henchmen will probably start calling you a n00b every time you die...

Absolute Destiny · Sep 07, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by silv3rr

Ok aside from the "I can hench the entire game" bragging, I would like to address the Level 20 cap.

(1)The level 20 cap is there because Guild Wars is what you call "competitive" PvP. The developers decided that with level 20 attributes, the game would be easier to work with. Can someone please elaborate on this?

You're just making it sound like you're mad because you suck. Sorry if I'm too straighforward but your mentality of "if I can't beat it, it's because I need to be higher level" is completely incompatible for Guild Wars. You're better off playing something like WoW (I don't have anything against WoW).

(2)Maybe you should've done some reasearch on the game to get a feel for it before you made the purchase. They clearly stated that GW is a competitive PvP/GvG based MMO. If you did read up on the game before you bought it, then you knew what you were getting yourself into.

(3)You can't expect GuildWars (a MMORPG) to offer the same in-depth, well written solo player linear RPGs (FF, Breat of Fire, Xenogear/saga etc.), it is a MMO afterall (I guess FFXI would be an exception

but that's because Squaresoft rocks, yes I refuse to acknowledge them as SquareEnix).

Okay, allow me to specifically address what you mentioned.

1) I'm mad because there isn't any way for me to beat, say, the monsters on the way to Drok's, by myself because the game doesn't provide a mechanic that allows my character to be stronger than the enemies.
If the level cap is there because of PvP mode, why is it that there are RPG-only characters and PvP-only characters?

2) I didn't read up on the game beforehand, aside from reading the box. The box implied that the focus on RPG and PvP was EQUALLY BALANCED. I bought it because I'd never played an online game before, and GW doesn't charge a monthly fee. I never intended to have to mess with other people, because the box, and the game manual, implied that anything in the game could be done alone.

3) Why the hell not? If the game can't live up to the current standards for RPG's, IT SHOULDN'T HAVE AN RPG MODE. It should be strictly PvP.

Kakumei · Sep 07, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

why is it that there are RPG-only characters

There aren't.

And the game does provide a mechanic to allow you to be stronger than the enemies: you have intelligence. They don't.

Absolute Destiny · Sep 07, 2006, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

There aren't.

And the game does provide a mechanic to allow you to be stronger than the enemies: you have intelligence. They don't.

That didn't answer my question.

Intelligence doesn't mean shit if there's about 30 of them, and they're ALL about ten levels higher than you.

My Sweet Revenga · Sep 07, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

I'm saying that after Droknar's Forge, it's impossible to get anywhere if it's just you and the henchies.

The only mission I haven't been able to hench in the game is the bonus for iron mines. This is simply because the bonus involves killing a bunch of mursatt and your henchmen aren't infuse.... a serious oversight that I hope ANET will fix soon. If you're having trouble with parts of the game after Droknars, you need to modify your build, or stop playing like a leroy wammo. Certainly you could teamroll over enemies say back in Kryta where you were probably at least 4 levels above your enemies. Once you're in the southern shiverpeaks, this is no longer the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

That didn't answer my question.
Intelligence doesn't mean shit if there's about 30 of them, and they're ALL about ten levels higher than you.

An intelligent player doesn't aggro 30 enemies at once. I have yet to run into a location where you automatically get swarmed by 30 enemies at the same time that are 10 levels above you. Hell the only enemy I've run into that is 10 levels above me is glint (lvl31), and she's alone. If you are being swarmed by 30 enemies at once, that's because you're playing like a leroy and aggroing more monsters than anybody could possibly take on (with the exception of solo farming monks with certain enemies). Any normal team of 8 real players would have trouble with taking on 30 lvl 20+ enemies at once. If enemies are typically 10 levels higher than you, then it means you aren't maxed out at level 20 so really you shouldn't be running around southern shiverpeaks anyway.

Absolute Destiny · Sep 07, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Sweet Revenga

You could steamroll over enemies say back in Kryta where you were probably at least 4 levels above your enemies. Once you're in the southern shiverpeaks, this is no longer the case.

I'm saying you should be able to get strong enough to steamroll ANY enemies in the game.

Avarre · Sep 07, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

After which, the point of playing would be...?

As far as most areas are concerned, solo players can steamroll them... smites, fow spiders, grenths footprint, rof/perdition, mineral springs... intelligence is not just in-zone play, but in preparation.

Reserved Egotist · Sep 07, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

I'm saying you should be able to get strong enough to steamroll ANY enemies in the game.

You need to be aware of a few things.

Ever heard of 55 monking? It's a solo build that can absolutely steamroll creatures higher level than he is, AS LONG as the things he fights are things with no enchantment stripping.

But this same 55 monk will die over a simple Vampiric Gaze, or any sort of enchantment removal. Big weakness right?

My point is that there are no, and there never will be, builds that can steamroller anything. Every build imaginable is counterable. If not, Anet will do something to balance the game.

Now you're having trouble fighting monsters in Droks...those critters are higher level than you, yes? So what are you to do? In nature, a legion of COOPERATIVE ants will swarm their larger adversary, and eventually overcome it. But a swarm of ants vs. a swarm of say...locusts...there isn't much of a chance is there? Likewise, your party cannot over-aggro enemies, but if you single out the correct targets like enemy monks, they will drop, and the rest of the small group, because they lost their monk, will soon drop.

Guild wars is NOT WoW, and it is NOT Diablo II.

samcobra · Sep 07, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

The OP's comment brings to mind one simple and essential question:
What is the point of playing a game?
Most would agree that it is the enjoyment of facing challenges and overcoming them. This enjoyment, therefore, stems solely from the fact that there ARE challenges. If you were able to steamroll anything, it would completely take the enjoyment out of the game; something that occurs quite frequently in some linear single player games after you have beaten the game.

Guild Wars, on the other hand, is not a game where you are meant to just spend time grinding for "uber1337" items and then pwn everything. Instead, you must learn to use that squishy gray stuff in your head (if you dont know what i'm talking about, then you're already screwed). It forces you to do this by imposing a level cap, meaning, you are facing odds against you. The rewarding nature of the game is that you can overcome those odds. If you dont want to play against higher level things than you... go pvp. If you dont want to interact with people, there are always solitary confinement wards and ascetism. However, if you wish to play a game where the content is completely easy and can be beaten with minimal effort, I suggest you stick away from any successful games and go scour amongst the forgotten games that never made it due to their lack of being fun.

Jetdoc · Sep 07, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

I'm saying you should be able to get SKILLED enough to steamroll ANY enemies in the game.

I've edited your post above to show how you really should be thinking when playing Guild Wars.

Guild Wars, from day one, has advertised that it is a game of skill, and not grind. You are able to accomplish feats through individual ability, not through numbers of hours played.

It sounds like you are frustrated because, after playing X number of hours, you believe that your character should have an advantage over the enemies in PvE. Honestly, if you're truly learning how to play your character, YOU (and not your character) should have the ability to steamroll those enemies.

This is done by (1) knowing their weaknesses; (2) knowing the AI's limitations and (3) finding ways to change your character/strategy to exploit #1 and #2.

You use the example of the monsters around Droknar's Forge. Let me give you an example of how skill can compensate for their greater numbers/strength:

Ice Imps - deal nothing but cold damage and interrupt you. Bring skills/armor that counteract elemental damage. Bring skills that are maintained (i.e. don't need to be recast in mid-battle) or have very quick cast times to avoid the interrupts.

Ice Golems - knock you down with Water Trident and slow you. Bring a skill that eliminates knockdowns (i.e. Dolyak Signet). Bring skills that remove the hexes they hit you with that slow you.

Azure Shadows/Tundra Giants - knock you down. Again, bring a skill that eliminates knockdowns.

Tengu...same thought process.

By counteracting their strengths, you can simply prepare your character to be stronger than them. But that comes with skill, experience and preparation - not from number of hours played.

Hopefully that helps and gives you a different perspective on what Guild Wars is all about!

Loki Seiguro · Sep 07, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

I'm saying that after Droknar's Forge, it's impossible to get anywhere if it's just you and the henchies.

Any player should be able to finish the entire game with relative ease alone, regardless of profession. No one should have to rely on anyone else.

My disgust with the level limit ties in here, because in any other RPG, if enemies are giving you a hard time, you can just keep gaining experience until you're at a higher or equal level, then go back and pwn them. But when the character can only get to level 20, and there are LEVEL THIRTY-FIVE enemies, wtf?

its not impossible to get anywhere after droks or anywahere for that matter with henchies alone. i for one have been able to finsh both prophocies campiegn + factios without having any human contact what so ever. Its all in the way you lead your team (yes i know controling the henchies are sometimes a problem but they are self suficent , as ive seen talon by himself take out an entire troop of jade brotherhood ( about 5 guys per group if im not mistaken). rumors has it that the healer henchie has no energy what so ever (infinet basically). If anything henchies are better then any human player out there.

yes the lvl 20 cap is annoying but you can make a build to fight against any odds there are. and they are lvl 35 becuase YOU HAVE 8 LVL 20s FOR GOD SAKE. its only fair. well thats all i have to say right now.

My Sweet Revenga · Sep 07, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

I'm saying you should be able to get strong enough to steamroll ANY enemies in the game.

All I know is if I was able to kill any monster in the game with a couple hits, I'd get real bored real quick. I know I got bored of morrowind when I reached the point where I could leap 20 feet into the air off the side of a mountain, smash a cliffracer in the face, and land halfway down the side of the mountain with not so much as a fleshwound. The higher level monsters are there to provide a challenge. No challenge means the game would lose entertainment value for me real fast.

If you aren't enjoying taking on these higher level monsters, I doubt if Factions is for you then. After playing factions since it came out, I travelled back to Prophecies to complete the "protector of tyria" and grandmaster cartographer titles and I'll tell you, it's like the tyrian monsters seem like they're moving in slo-mo compared to factions.

Phaern Majes · Sep 07, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

I'm saying that after Droknar's Forge, it's impossible to get anywhere if it's just you and the henchies.

Any player should be able to finish the entire game with relative ease alone, regardless of profession. No one should have to rely on anyone else.

My disgust with the level limit ties in here, because in any other RPG, if enemies are giving you a hard time, you can just keep gaining experience until you're at a higher or equal level, then go back and pwn them. But when the character can only get to level 20, and there are LEVEL THIRTY-FIVE enemies, wtf?

Um I beat the entire game with my Ranger using henchies only. Including but not limited to THK, Hell's Precipice, Dunes (bonus too), Elona's, etc... namely every mission and the primary quests.

eternal pho · Sep 07, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

I do everything with henchmen. Just make changes to your builds if you can't defeat such high lvl creatures?

2ndName · Sep 07, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

I don't know what build you are running, but you probably need to change it a bit. I was able to beat Prophecies with my War/Mo and henchies. Also, if it makes you feel better, my N/W Meleemancer was able to defeat Prophecies with Henchies also. He was using the Tormentor armor + Bloodstained boots (Lower armor than your warrior)

And in regards to the level cap. 20 is fine IMO. If they raise the cap, they will also raise the baddies' level cap. So it is basically the same thing but with us, the players, having to grind more to get to the higher levels. And with that, comes more armors at different levels. We already have whinners regarding how armors are soo expensive yada, yada, yada.

Some might say, raise OUR level cap but not the baddies. Okay, how fun would it to walk up to a boss like Urgoz or Shiro, stab him once and game over? You will say "That is fun, my guy is uber leet and can kill anything solo and get more greens". Well those greens will have a lower drop rate, like .00000000001 and they will be overly farmed which will bring the prices down to the Totem Axe.

With that being said, let us keep it at 20. Let us get end game armors at DF or Kaineng. Let us form a team of 8 or more to kill a hard boss. Basically, don't change anything and just adapt.

Kook~NBK~ · Sep 07, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

Okay, allow me to specifically address what you mentioned.

1) I'm mad because there isn't any way for me to beat, say, the monsters on the way to Drok's, by myself because the game doesn't provide a mechanic that allows my character to be stronger than the enemies.
If the level cap is there because of PvP mode, why is it that there are RPG-only characters and PvP-only characters?

The way to make your character stronger than your enemies is by playing around with your build to get a good balance of both offensive (damage dealing) and defensive (damage preventing, absorbing & healing) skills. PvE characters are not limited to the PvE side of things, they have access to the PvP areas as well. Before they changed the area, you could take you W/Mo to an area of the desert filled with level 24 griffons, aggro every single one of them and defeat them all by yourself within a matter of minutes - IF you had the right skills, attribute levels, armor, and knowledge & skill on how to keep yourself alive. If all you want is easy killing, then get to level 20, then go back and just run around oustide Ascalon City killing the stuff there. You'll find yourself bore beyond belief in no time because of the lack of challenge.

Quote:

2) I didn't read up on the game beforehand, aside from reading the box. The box implied that the focus on RPG and PvP was EQUALLY BALANCED. I bought it because I'd never played an online game before, and GW doesn't charge a monthly fee. I never intended to have to mess with other people, because the box, and the game manual, implied that anything in the game could be done alone.

I've always thought the balance between PvE and PvP was pretty good. What's wrong with getting involved with other people? Yeah, there's some real jerks out there, but there's a good many pretty cool people, too. As for doing things alone, I spend a lot of time doing things "alone" with henchies.

Quote:

3) Why the hell not? If the game can't live up to the current standards for RPG's, IT SHOULDN'T HAVE AN RPG MODE. It should be strictly PvP.

GW is not a cookie-cutter RPG, as far as I know. It's designed for team play, both in the PvE and PvP. If you really want to enjoy the game, take some time to find out what your characters needs to have to rip through the baddies (THAT is the true challenge of GW). You only "can't" because you don't know HOW!

QuixotesGhost · Sep 07, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

To everyone else in the thread:

If you notice, the OP mentioned that his previous RPG experience consited of Morrowind and Oblivion. In those games, once you hit a high enough level, you can quite literally one-hit kill Gods and jump 100 feet in the air. He's expecting the Guild Wars end-game to be exactly the same.

To the OP:

No other RPG that I've played allows you to get such insane levels of power like Morrowind. It's not something you should be expecting when walking into a new game.

Numa Pompilius · Sep 07, 2006, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

1) I'm mad because there isn't any way for me to beat, say, the monsters on the way to Drok's, by myself because the game doesn't provide a mechanic that allows my character to be stronger than the enemies.

Ooooh, wait a second, back up - are you trying to go from Beacons Perch to Droknars Forge, using henches?

If you are, you're going the wrong way, and it's no wonder you're having your ass handed to you: that route is strictly level-20 content.

Unless you've already finished the game and am level 20 you're supposed to take the other exit out of Beacons. You'll find the opposition a lot more manageable there.

Beacons perch is about 1/5th into the campaign, basically you're still in the starting areas; this game is much, much, bigger than any single-player rpg you've ever played, trust me. If you play the game the way it's intended you'll get to Droknars Forge about halfway through the game. You're not supposed to be able to get through Lornars Pass on your first visit to Beacons.

My Sweet Revenga · Sep 07, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

this game is much, much, bigger than any single-player rpg you've ever played, trust me.

Urm not true. Guild Wars is pretty tiny as you can actually get all the way to the ring of fire islands on your own within a few days. Now Morrowind..... that would be the biggest single player RPG that I myself have played, but it's definitely bigger than Guild Wars. The overview land mass looks small but when you take into account all the dungeons and building interiors and even all the community addon mod content...... I played morrowind for months and I still haven't finished the game. Got sidetracked by all the mods I installed

Oblivion is smaller than Morrowind, but personally I think it's still bigger than Guild Wars, but not by much until more community made content becomes available.

Brother Andicus · Sep 07, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

1) I'm mad because there isn't any way for me to beat, say, the monsters on the way to Drok's, by myself because the game doesn't provide a mechanic that allows my character to be stronger than the enemies.

Seriously, if you really think that, its probably time to go uninstall around about now.

There isnt anywhere excepting special areas(FoW/UW etc) that you cant go with a henchman team, and there are very few places you cant go completely alone given the right build.

Just a rough guess, but you still have power-attack on your skillbar right?